podcast thumb-1Welcome to the Making Space Podcast!

This podcast comes out of a decade’s long partnership between Aspen Group and Barna. In this series, hosts Benjamin Windle and Jay Kim will be focusing on the impact that physical spaces have on the way people are formed and shaped as they experience Jesus, engage with the church, and interact with others in community.

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Episode 16: Jay Kim & Benjamin Windle on Practical Reflections on Church Spaces & Building

Benjamin Windle and Jay Kim look back on some of their highlights from the guest interviews in Season 2 and share how they have thought about church spaces in their own ministry contexts.





Episode 15: Kristel Acevedo on Small Groups, Discipleship & Bridging Generational Gaps

Kristel Acevedo talks with Benjamin Windle and Jay Kim about building multigenerational and multiethnic small groups, using social media as a discipleship tool and what Gen Z is looking for from formation within the Church.





Episode 14: Al Gordon on Creative Church Design & Encountering Beauty in Architecture

Al Gordon joins Jay Kim and Benjamin Windle to share the story of their church renovation in East London, including how they’ve used their church space as a “cathedral of creativity” and some of the tangible ways they have served the needs of the community they’re planted in.





Episode 13: Dr. Eric Mason on Urban Church Buildings & Addressing Local Needs

Dr. Eric Mason sits down with Benjamin Windle to talk about trends he’s seeing with churches in Philadelphia after the pandemic, the shifting role of historic church buildings in urban contexts and practical ways their church has shown up for the needs of their community. 





Episode 12: Bette Dickinson on Art, Liturgy & Formation in Sunday Gatherings

Bette Dickinson joins Jay Kim and Benjamin Windle to discuss the connection between worship and the visual arts, understanding the role of liturgy in church services (even in non-liturgical settings), and the underlying desires people have when entering into a church space.





Episode 11: Dave Lomas on Reimagining Sacred Architecture, Formation & Community Impact

Dave Lomas talks with Jay Kim and Benjamin Windle about the connection between formation and physical spaces, what he’s seeing with historic church architecture, and how their church aims to address the needs of their local community.





Episode 10: Tara Beth Leach on Creating Safe Spaces for Grief & Lament in the Church

Tara Beth Leach sits down with Benjamin Windle and Jay Kim to talk about her own journey with grief, practical ideas for churches to offer solace to those experiencing hardship, and specific ways that architecture can shape our sense of safety in a place.





Episode 9: Mark Sayers on Discovering Renewal in Local Church Buildings & Embodied Discipleship

Mark Sayers joins Benjamin Windle and Jay Kim to talk about the formative power of “second spaces” in church buildings, the pandemic’s shifting impact on the local and universal church and what he’s seeing with discipleship in today's churches.






Season 2 Trailer

The second season of the Making Space podcast is here! Hosts Jay Kim and Benjamin Windle will talk with a diverse group of guests about how spiritual formation relates to our church facilities and the built environment. They’ll also touch on how physical spaces shape our sense of communal belonging to God and one another.






Episode 8: Liz Laird on Why Church Buildings Still Matter in the Modern Era

In this final episode of the Making Space Podcast, Jay Kim and Benjamin Windle talk with Liz Laird, co-founder of the Sacred Spaces Conservancy, a Washington, D.C. based nonprofit organization that finds collaborative solutions to preserve vital sacred spaces in neighborhood life. Liz shares how historic church architecture can inspire the modern church to lean into creative ways to communicate beauty, transcendence, and holiness.




Episode 7: Daniel Yang on Post-Pandemic Trends in Church Planting and Missional Presence

In this episode of the Making Space Podcast, Daniel Yang, Director of Church Multiplication Institute at Wheaton College Billy Graham Center, discusses how the pandemic affected church plants and the trends coming out of it. He also shares how we can reimagine the power of meaningful church gatherings in unique spaces.





Episode 6: Jonathan Shaffer on Church Renovations on a Budget: Ideas from the Retail Space

In this episode, Jay Kim and Benjamin Windle talk with Jonathan Shaffer, a virtual reality designer who brings brands to life both physically and digitally. Jonathan shares how the design of retail space can inspire innovative church environments and he gives examples for how churches can step outside of the mundane to create unique physical church experiences.




Episode 5: A.J. Swoboda and Sara Joy Proppe on Designing Nature into Your Spaces of Worship

In this episode of the Making Space Podcast, hosts Jay Kim and Benjamin Windle talk with author and Assistant Professor of Bible Theology and World Christianity at Bushnell University, Dr. A.J. Swoboda, and Sara Joy Proppe, a Placemaking Consultant and founder of Proximity Project. They discuss how the transcendence of nature and creation translates to the design of our church spaces and how we can incorporate the outdoor world as part of the physical church experience.




Episode 4: Darryl Answer on Breaking Down the Walls Between Church and Community

Darryl Answer, founding and lead pastor of New Community Church in Kansas City, MO, talks with hosts Jay Kim and Benjamin Windle about innovative ways his congregation has approached physical church and caring for the community.






Episode 3: Daniel Grothe on The Church as Home and Why Rootedness Matters More than Ever

Daniel Grothe, Associate Senior Pastor at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, and author of The Power of Place: Choosing Stability in a Rootless Age, talks with hosts Jay Kim and Benjamin Windle about how the sense of connectedness to a place forms and shapes us, and can impact our spiritual formation.





Episode 2: Tish Harrison Warren on Spiritual Formation and the Shaping Power of Spaces

In this episode of the Making Space Podcast, hosts Benjamin Windle and Jay Kim will talk with priest and award-winning author of Liturgy of the Ordinary: Sacred Practices in Everyday Life, Tish Harrison Warren. They’ll discuss the threads of connection between spiritual formation and the built environment.





Episode 1: Ashley Ekmay and Elena Forsythe on Rediscovering Embodied Community Within the Church

Ashley Ekmay, from Barna, and Elena Forsythe, from Aspen Group, share insights on how their teams collaborated on the first volume of the Making Space research project, Making Space for Inspiration, which dives into the way church and other spaces form and shape us as we experience Jesus and engage with others in community. They'll discuss the concepts of transcendence, comfort, how we bring our emotions into a space, and what it means for a space to be personal. They’ll share insights on how space affects us physically, emotionally, and how it influences our spiritual lives.



Season 1 Trailer: Introducing the Making Space Podcast

In this first season of the Making Space Podcast, hosts Jay Kim and Benjamin Windle will unpack the Barna and Aspen Group research, Making Space for Inspiration. They’ll sit down with various leaders and thinkers to discuss how nature affects our spiritual lives, the value of historic buildings in our digital era, what the church can learn from the design of retail spaces, and they'll offer some key takeaways for your ministry.

Key Questions to Prepare for a Fresh Start in Your Ministry Space

The day is coming when your church will return to the building. Will you be ready? What will you do with your fresh start?

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